Susan & Beth free porn video

By Fermpera


It is said, if statistics are to be believed, that homosexuality is in between 15 and 18 % of the human population of the planet. Some surveys in America say that 75% of the people think that incest is acceptable. Of this percentage 28% says it is acceptable all time and 49% under certain circumstances. The surveys also establish that in a incestual relationships 33% of the male has had sex with the mother, and 49 % with sister. Of the female 3% claimed to have had relations with mother and 38% with the father. So, incest is not unusual and lesbian incest neither. This story is based on real facts.

1

Beth: A few weeks ago

My name is Beth and I am the child of a, now, late fifty something couple who live in a little town of an idyllic county near San Francisco, California. Sorry, I also have a married brother that right now is living in England far away in all aspects of our lives. Mother is a post grade Economist and works from home as a very respected tax consultant for several big corporations over the State, and my father Dr Mark Sandler is a Magister in Chemistry, and each month must go from two to three weeks to several out of state universities as a consultant professor. The story starts, as I was returning home by train after a prolonged absence anxious to be with my lover , and from time to time with the recollections of what had happened twenty years ago and the memories of some, I might say, family events, that occurred before then, some thirty years ago, and opened a new road in some of our lives. The journey was long that day, the train seats lumpy and uncomfortable, but that was not the reason why I was unable to concentrate on reading the book brought especially along to while away the time.

My thoughts lay elsewhere, with my lover to be precise, on how we would greet after a month apart. Anticipation of the meeting was building within me as was the ever present sexual desire for what I hoped and prayed would soon transpire.

The book I had tried to read lay open on my on my lap on top of a casual jacket and thankfully, both covered the movements of my hand which was roving around my groin area, gently teasing my clit through my panties to the motion of the train, not a very good idea really as I have never yet had a silent orgasm but I don't think anyone noticed what I was doing, and even if they had I cared not a jot.

****
I had been away on a training course so far from home as to make it impractical to return at weekends, but now the big day had arrived and we had arranged that my lover would be waiting expectantly for me at the train station, hot with the same desire as my own, I hoped.

We had talked on the ‘phone every evening of course, but that isn't the same as actually being together; touching, kissing and making love whenever we are alone and the moment is right; though, since we had been apart we had indulged quite openly and noisily in 'phone sex which we both agreed was the next best thing. We used the word “Fuck “ many times during our sexy 'phone calls together with a liberal smattering of “Cunt, whore, slut, etc”, and talking dirty somehow brought us together more over those hundreds of miles. Strangely though, when we are together we use dirty talk or feel the need to, only on very special moments.

I remember vividly the time I brought myself to a climax with the handset, my lover listening to the squishy wet noises it made as it moved up and down inside my body, and my simultaneous screams of pain and delight being muffled so many miles away. Just what possessed me to do that? Well, perhaps cause I was lonely in a strange town, missing my lover and thought anything I could do to excite that most precious person would keep the physical side of our relationship burning. As things transpired I needn't have worried and needn't have done it, but it does beg the question; how many other girls have had physical relations with a mobile phone? Answers on a postcard please!

I waited in my flat impatiently for the calls and when the phone rang at precisely 9 pm every evening I instinctively knew it was my lover, and knew we would start to make phone love, slowly but passionately and build up gradually, sexily until we both had noisy screaming orgasms, me with my panties still on, sodden by now with vaginal secretions and the little pee which almost always escaped me when I came alone, dribbling down my thighs, and which I never attempted to stop. My lover thought this to be an endearing little trait but it was often quite a source of embarrassment to me.
To look at my lover or myself for that matter, nobody could imagine that we could talk so dirty, that such filth between two lovers was possible, but we did, and it was wonderful. But now the train was entering the station and I stared impatiently though the window to see if my love was waiting. She was! Heart racing, I grabbed my bags and rushed down the steps into her arms.

"Mmmmmm, I have missed you, my darling, Oh how much do I love you my dear, dear Beth." said Susan.

My tongue was down her throat in a jiffy and my reply was inaudible, but I think she understood how I felt, and by the looks we received from other passengers it was obvious they also understood. I would have danced naked over red hot coals to see my lady, so the few funny looks we received bounced off me like drizzle from an umbrella.

"I have missed you too, Susie darling," I cooed, "I've been dreaming about this moment for weeks!" and indeed I had.

Susie as I call her since the time our loving started, was and is a stunner in any language and by anyone's standard: tall, slim and brunette with slightly larger than boyish breasts that would never droop with age. She was 37 then but she looked at most to be 25 and could easily have passed for my slightly older sister. But she isn't my sister, she is my lover.

At that time I was 19, and though I shouldn't say this, quite attractive from what others said. I too am tall and slim, and have a similar figure to Susie's. That's great because everything fits where it should when we make love, and that is often. My breasts are small too but for me this is an advantage rather than not. Nature made me tall and slim and I do my best to keep things that way by regular training with Susie at our local gym.

Susie drove us to her home in a peacefully quiet part of the town where she lived with her husband who, though I love him to bits, was mercifully away on teaching business for a week or so, unknowingly giving us the time and space to be alone. Susie only found she was bisexual when we began our affair, our very deep and private love affair. She has no love or sexual desire for any other woman but me, and I reciprocate that. We are totally and completely IN LOVE, but she is married and neither of us would wish to hurt her husband in any way by breaking up the marriage.

As she drove, my hand wandered, wandered, wandered, until it reached that warm, moist and well trimmed place that we ladies (and most men) regard as our Holy of Holies. She must have been expecting me to do just this because she wore no panties.

She moaned as my fingertips brushed her pubic hair. She moaned and steered though half closed eyes as I sought entry to her cavern of love as she drove on. Her thighs were hot and quivered at my touch but she was far hotter in between them.

"Best not, not now, Beth darling," she said though clenched teeth, "any more of this and we'll crash!"

Such was my desire for her that day that I hadn't taken the traffic, light as it was, into account. Slowly and teasingly I withdrew my hand ensuring those fingernails raked her thigh, making her shudder with delight.

I sniffed my naughty fingers and inhaled her tantalising scent. Her sexual aroma was unique and I would have picked it out blindfold from a hundred others, a blend of pure, mature woman and open sexual desire. It was a scent I remembered so well and loved so much, a scent to be savoured, a scent for special occasions, a scent to be worn with pride and a scent born out of love.

"Mmmmmm," I murmured half to myself, "I love you Susie....can't wait to get...."

But at that point Susie was pulling into the driveway, and with a quick flick of her wrist turned the engine off. We gazed at each other from only inches away and for the first time in a month experienced a frenzied bout of kissing and feeling each other's bodies.

"Let's go inside," she said, "before we get too carried away and someone sees us."

Hardly likely, I thought, just as the nearest house was at least 100 metres away.
We unloaded my bags and lugged them through the door, dropping them on the floor and slamming the door shut as we frantically tore at each other's clothing. Some of it came off there and then, other bits and pieces lay in a trail which marked our passage upstairs to the main bedroom, a top here, a skirt there, my panties on the top step.
"I need a shower after a journey like that, " I said as I never relish anyone having to eat me out if I'm not completely fresh.

"We can shower together darling," came the reply from Susie, "just like we used….. to do, remember?"

Did I remember ? My God yes! Some of our more adventurous scenes were played out in or near to the shower. I couldn't wait!

Needing a wee but needing my lover even more I took Susie by the hand and we entered the shower, we soaped each other under the dreamily warm jets and it was immediately obvious to me that Susie wanted me at least as much as I did her. Lots.

She came first from my ministrations with both soap and high powered water jet, she came with an intensity I have rarely seen before, her whole body rigid and trembling in a long, long, double orgasm, which left her slumped against my body, sliding gently to her knees as it subsided.

She shuddered and moaned in that position for a while, her hands clutching the globes of my bum, head down as the water still cascaded over us both.

"Glad to see me then Susie?" I ventured.

If I thought she was sated by that first long orgasm I was wrong, thankfully, so very wrong. They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder and never was this more true than that day.

She nodded and muttered her love for me, raising her head at the same time. I think it was then we both realised that her face was only inches from my own sex. She moved hesitantly towards the hottest part of my body and I desperately wanted her to inhale my now clean aroma, to drink deep of my well, to eat the Ambrosia of love that was brimming out of me and was for her alone.

Turning off one jet so that it didn't spray in Susie's face I turned on another which played down her suntanned and perfectly proportioned back. The water ran smoothly down her body and formed a little river through the parting of her globes, a place where I hoped my tongue would soon play like the water before me.

Susie had by now recovered her senses and was nuzzling my sex with her nose, driving me insane with her tongue, flicking it in and around those hot, wet lips. I may say that my vagina lips were wet, extremely wet, and not just from the shower alone! I oozed love from that place and my lover was quick to take advantage of the aromatic stream of my womanhood.

She licked, she drank and she teased until the delightfully ecstatic building up of sexual excitement pain took me past the point of no return and my orgasm exploded in her face, drenching her with sticky love juice, and I'm ashamed to say, a little drop of my wee as her tongue took me to heaven on a fluffy white cloud which was more than my poor distended bladder could stand.

She rose and we kissed. I smelled my smell on her and tasted my own love juice, licking her face like a cat will lick a kitten, loving it, savouring the sexual electricity that emanated from us both.

We washed properly then, chatting like two schoolgirls as we did so. We dried each other, which led to another orgasm each, and then we went to bed on that still sunny afternoon in May.

Susie had obviously planned the moment as she had placed a bottle of champagne in an ice bucket, anticipating where we would shortly be after we arrived at her house.

I poured for us both, took a drink and then a second which I held in my mouth and dribbled into Susie's slightly open sex. I raised her thighs then and sucked out the bubbly mixture of champagne and her thicker, sexy, highly charged love potion. Whilst the alcohol content may have been low that drink was by far the most potent of any I have ever tasted. We were both in Heaven and knew it.
We talked for a while, kissing and fondling as lovers do until I suggested that she may like a massage.

Oh yes! What a suggestion! I saw in her eyes that a naked massage from her younger lover was exactly what she wanted after all this time apart, and turning her onto her tummy I sat on the globes of her bum and began to massage her neck and shoulders. Naked massaging is a wonderful thing, and even more so when one knows it will end in mind blowing sex with someone who must certainly be one of the most beautiful creatures on the planet.

I look upon these massages as my both, giving and receiving pleasure at the same time, always making sure that when I moved the movement was blissful to me just as the tender touching was to my partner, and so it was on this occasion.

When working my way down her body I had to continually move position and noticed as I did so that I was leaving a scented trail of secretion on her skin, so when my fingers finally reached her globes I was able to bend down and lick it off.

It must have been the touch of a slightly raspy tongue on her globes, or maybe the fact that by now my fingers were entering her pussy from the rear, but I heard her gasp and she parted her gorgeous thighs still further to afford me better access to whichever entrance I wished to invade. Invade? Possible that is too strong a word, maybe excite, titillate or play with even, but Susie made it plain that either or both of her private places was completely available to me.

I took advantage of her offer and chose to enter both. Not at first, because those naughty fingers of mine were exploring her very wet vagina, but after a few minutes of this mutual heaven I raised her thighs one by one until that lovely bum was pointing invitingly upwards.

This was something I had determined to do today, and seeing her like that gave me no option but to spread her globes further apart.

"Mmmmmm, Mmmmmm," from Susie as she realised what my intention was," Mmmmmm, Mmmmmm, oh my God, yessssssssssss darling," as my tongue played around that delicate, sensitive skin, slightly darker than the rest of her body and which had its own highly charged erogenous zone.

Her hands reached behind her and did the work for me, spreading her own buttocks and revealing her dark, puckered anal entrance. My whole body trembled with emotion and excitement when I gazed down at her and her succulent anus, taking in at a long glance the creamy texture of her skin, the roundness of her parted cheeks and the glorious invitation which lay deep between them.

My tongue reached in tentatively and tasted her. She jumped at its touch and murmured something inaudible but which I took to be a sign that she liked what I had done.

My body felt like jelly just then as my tongue took on a life of its own and entered her from the rear. Fingers still moving inside her pussy, tongue now inside her beautiful ass hole, and the combination of the two was enough to drive her over the edge and into oblivion again. Lucky Susie I thought, but I knew that very soon she would be returning the favour with as much if not more energy and ingenuity as I had expended on her.

Lying completely prone now with her face to one side so she could breathe I heard my lover whisper,

"My darling Beth, that was so wonderful. I love you so very, very much."

"I love you too my darling," was my only reply before we began to play again. More words were unnecessary, this was not a time to talk.

She turned over then, fully exposing her fount of love for my inspection, and rarely have I seen such a wonderful sight. Her pubes were trim, jet black like my own, wet and matted with her womanly secretions. Her inner lips of darkling pinkness glistened temptingly and she must have sensed my next move which was to bury my face in her and eat her completely.

"No darling," she breathed quietly, "come to me," and she indicated that I should straddle her body so that she could play with me as I played with her.

She lay underneath me then as I knelt above her facing down upon her toned belly, the cleft of her sex more and more visible as my hungry mouth lowered down to it in the 69 position.

I fully expected Susie to adjust my lower body onto her face so she could tongue me as I had done her, and as I was about to do again. She, however, had other ideas and her dextrous fingers lightly scraped my inner thighs making me jerk and spasm with ecstasy.

Knowing well each other by now, I guess our feminine intuition comes into play as we instinctively know what turns the other on, and more to the point we both know where and how to touch or lick, and precisely when to do it.

She knew exactly where to lightly touch me, to make me quiver with excitement, and in the doing she made me secrete more and more, which had I been in another position would have merely leaked onto my thighs, but which she told me later had dripped now and then onto her upturned face.

Fingers entered my vaginal opening made easy by the lubrication there. One finger, two and then a third pleasured me as her thumb massaged my engorged clit.

I felt another insertion then and realised that Susie was using both hands, I had never experienced four fingers in there before and was amazed that I was able to expand so much and so quickly to accommodate them all. And then, just having become used to the tightness of it all, the pressure eased somewhat as she removed the last finger she had inserted and a second later I felt it tickling on and around my darkest place. I felt a slight push and gasped. Susie had entered my anus with that well lubricated finger! Another push took it to my sphincter where it played and toyed around, then a final thrust, gentle but firm took it past that point into the deepest recess I had.

"Could Heaven ever be this divine?" I asked myself as my lover revolved that digit deep inside me. In and out, round and round she turned it, driving me mad with desire. I wanted this to last forever but Susie had other ideas and after a few minutes of blissful anal penetration she withdrew completely from there and from my vagina also.

Strong firm hands grasped the orbs of my bum as she drew me down to her face, licking and sucking the overflowing moisture from around that special place, her tongue now inside, then out and teasing the sensitive area around my anal passage before deciding to settle and concentrate on my clit.

I dove for hers as soon as her tongue touched mine, taking her clit into my mouth and hearing her pleasure filled moan, nose buried deep inside her wet vagina, tongue mercilessly working on her clit. She was doing the same to me with a passion, grinding her mouth into me and sucking, that wonderful sucking which brought me to a crescendo very soon

At the same time I sensed Susie's own climax as her body tensed and the lips of her sex opened still further by themselves. Her clit took on a life of its own as she pushed and bucked with a strength belying her slim frame.

We both climaxed together just seconds later – it seemed to go on forever, ever, rolling, climbing, both finally zooming up unstoppably to that fluffy white cloud of ecstasy before the gentle swaying falling motion, much like a leaf dropping gently from a tree.

We rolled apart and I turned my cum covered face to my lover, crawled up to her and we kissed. Kissed and licked and tongued each other's juices from our faces, kissed and licked until our tongues were sore at their bases.

" Oh dear, how much do I love you, Susie " I whispered in her ear.

"I too love you very much my darling ,I’ m completely and insanely in love with you." replied my MOTHER with true feeling.

2
Susan: some thirty years ago.

I was young when I got pregnant with Beth. Mark and I were both only 17 and, as we were in college, things were like a nightmare. It was 1975 and we were already in hot water with our parents for being followers of the dying "free love" ideology. But we were far from hippies and neither of us had ever experienced any of this "free love" until the time he and I went too far and wound up with a baby.

Gratefully, Mark was a brilliant student and swept through college and UCLA without delay and got a job as a chemist with a blossoming firm that was just starting out in San Francisco; meanwhile I left college to give birth, had Beth and, after, I went to campus to get my grade and post grade in Economy. By the time my daughter was nine we had good employment , two cars and a three bedroom duplex and hadn't suffered in our marriage in the least to get it. We weren't much for hippy concepts by then. We were very suburban; for a time I was a girl guide leader and Mark coached a local little league team. So when our son came along it was with no uncertainty that we knew we had stumbled into middle class security, going up, and we didn’t talk anymore about those early days and our "experimentation".

Frankly...not much else other than work and devotion appealed to me by that point and suburbia wasn't so bad after all. Beth used to eat breakfast with me and her dad before he left for work and Beth left for school. At that time as her father, Mark, walked out the door each morning, I would always hand him a lunch and give him a kiss. One particular day when Beth was 7 years old, she was running late for breakfast, and was hurrying down from her room. Later she told me she paused in the doorway as she returned to the kitchen – and she saw her father and me kissing, but not like usual. Since she had been out of the room we were being a little more affectionate. This was a longer kiss and to Beth it looked like their mouths were open.

As Mark was pulling away to leave, he traced his hands down my shoulders, lightly caressing my breasts over the shirt all the way from chest to nipple in one fairly quick motion. "Well! And you have a nice day too!" I said him, smiling as he winked and walked out the door. I turned and saw Beth standing in the kitchen, watching me intently. I was a little flushed from the kiss and quick fondle, so I said,

"Hi honey, is... something wrong?"

"No, no," said Beth, and sat back down at the table to finish eating. A few minutes later, out of nowhere, Beth asked,

"Mom, what did Dad do to you right when he left?"

I didn't know quite what to answer, but Beth was still young and I knew I could get away with making up a story.

"Well, honey, it's a little game people who are in love play when they say goodbye, and no one's looking."

"Why do they do it?"

"Well, uh... because it feels good. Because Mommy likes it." I said.

Beth, was apparently satisfied with the answer, and went back to her breakfast. When she was done she gathered up her things and went to the door to leave for school. "Don't forget to give Mommy a kiss," said I getting up to say goodbye. I gave Beth a hug and a kiss. But as she went to let go, Beth traced her hands lightly and quickly down my breasts, the same way her father had done.

"Oh, sweetie, you're not supposed to do that!" I said.

"Why not Mommy, we're in love, right?" Beth asked.

"I... well not like... I'm..." and couldn't think of words to say to my daughter. I cursed myself for making up a story. Figuring Beth would forget about the whole thing shortly, I just said, "Yes, we are. Have a good day at school."

“Bye Mommy" said Beth.

"Bye ,baby" I answered, closing the door. "That was really stupid," I thought. "Why did I tell her it was a game? Well I'm sure she'll forget about it anyway." I just figured my daughter was only curious about how men and women interacted.

As I walked up to my bathroom to get ready for my day, I looked at myself in the mirror. Twenty-five years old, and still pretty cute. Five foot eight, slim, brunette hair; I'd put on a little weight since having Beth, but all In all, I still felt attractive; my breasts were still the feature I was most proud of, hard, firm, little bigger than a boys, perky and with very prominent nipples as when Beth was born, and had stayed that way since. I wondered if maybe Beth had a curiosity about her mother's or her own lack of breasts that may have precipitated this morning's encounter. Whatever hopes Susan had that Beth would forget about their "game" were dashed in the subsequent days. More often than not, as Beth was heading off for school she would give me a quick kiss and trace her hands down my breasts. This put me in an awkward situation. I did not feel "sinful" or "evil"; I knew this was just a game to my daughter. But I also knew it wasn't right and that eventually someone may see and not understand. So I came up with a plan to end it, without hurting my daughter's feelings.

From now on, when Beth left for school in the morning, I stayed sitting at the kitchen table. I would still call my daughter over and give her a good-bye kiss, but I being seated, she would not be in a position to play "the game." Beth never said anything about this change or made any objections. I thought for sure she was done with this small problem, until one evening when I was getting ready to go out with my husband. He was out picking up the babysitter, and Beth was in my bathroom watching me put on my make-up. One of Beth's favourite things was to get a kiss from me before I went out so that the lipstick would be on her own lips too. I was aware of this so I didn't make any objections when my daughter asked me for a kiss. "The game" wasn't even on my mind until after the quick kiss when Beth's hands once again traced their way down my breasts. I, although frustrated, didn't say anything. I figured this was one "relapse" and that this particular situation didn't present itself often enough to make a scene over it. But Beth enjoyed the game.

I knew Beth thought the world of me as her mother and tried to be like me in every way. So it made her feel good that they could play this game that she believed I liked, and she was letting me know how much she loved me. It never occurred to Beth that the feeling and touching could have been considered wrong. So it came to pass that I never corrected or scolded Beth for playing our game. And over the next few years, although it didn't happen frequently, I didn't even mind it anymore. Beth never did it when anyone else was around, and it was never worth it to me to upset my daughter when we had such an otherwise enviable relationship. After all, Beth always listened to me and never caused us any trouble. It wasn't until Beth turned 12 and she was still playing the “game” that I started thinking it was becoming too unnatural. After all, when I was in 7th grade like Beth I had kissed a boy for the first time.

It wasn't with tongue, mind you, but at least I knew that I liked boys and they gave me a feeling that girls didn't. Any original thoughts about that it was a phase with Beth were quickly diminishing. I was pondering whether or not I should have a definitive talk with Beth about stopping it. But In October of that year, Beth went to a boys-girls Halloween party. I didn't know if Beth had a boyfriend or not, although I was hoping that she did. Funny how my whole life I had thought how I would dread my daughter dating, but now I was actually rooting for it. Since it wasn't a sleepover, and Mark was away on business, I stayed up and waited for Beth to come home as her father was in a fishing trip with friends. It was 11:45 when Beth walked through the door.

“So how did it go?" I asked. "Fine, mom," said Beth. She looked a little tired, and a little... something else, something that I, her mother couldn't pinpoint.
"Did the boys show up?".

"Yes, and we all watched the Exorcist. It was so scary. I think Brian Daley knew I was scared because he came over and held my hand."

I was ecstatic at this piece of information. "Really! Do you like him?" I asked. "Is he nice?"

"He's very nice, Mom," Beth replied, smiling shyly, "I think he might ask me out."

"That's great! Your first boyfriend!"

“Aw mom! Be quiet! He's not my boyfriend. Besides, I don't know if he'll really do it."

"I'm sure he will. Boys don't hold your hand for no reason." I said, and looked at my watch. "Now it's late. You should go get ready for bed."

"O.K., mom," Beth said, giving me a hug and kiss and running upstairs. "Good night."

"Good night," I answered, and smiled to myself. Beth hadn't played “the game”! I had assumed correctly that the presence of boys in Beth's life had brought an end to it. I went up to get myself ready for bed, and for the first time realized that I felt a tiny bit sad and a little disappointed that our little mother/daughter bonding game was over. I disrobed, slipped into my satin sleeping top and bottom, and got into my lonely bed. Before I had even fallen asleep, I heard a knock on my bedroom door. "What's wrong, Beth," I asked.

"I can't sleep mom. I keep thinking about that movie."

"Well, O.K baby.,", "what can I do for you? Do you want me to heat you up some milk or something?"

"Can I just sleep in here tonight? I wanted to talk to you about something anyway."

"Sure, baby," I said, moving some of the blankets off the other side of the bed.

"What is it?"

Beth crawled into the bed. "I was just thinking, mom, that um, maybe we should... stop doing, you know, the kiss game. I think it should probably just be for you and Dad. You're not mad are you?" I was touched; my thoughts were both confirmed and articulated. "Oh, no precious. I think it's good that we stop a game now. You're at that point of your life," I said, and kissed my daughter on the forehead.

"Thanks, mom." Beth said. We lay there for a few minutes not saying anything before Beth said, "Maybe we should, um, do it one last time so we can remember what it's like." I had no objections; in fact I thought it was kind of sweet that my daughter was going to miss our bonding game, because I surely was. So I turned towards my daughter and kissed her on the lips, a mother to daughter kiss, and waited for Beth to do her thing. Beth knelt up in the bed and placed her hands on my shoulders. Except rather than a quick tracing of the breasts, Beth's hands moved slowly down to my nipples, then back up the breast and down again. Surprised, I looked at my daughters face and noticed something amiss.

"What's wrong, Beth?" Beth, whose breasts had not developed yet, said, "Mom, are mine going to be like yours?"

Oh, sweetie, I'm sure they are. You're still a little young to have them. But someday you will."

"I want them to be like yours. They are so pretty and hard," said Beth.
"Well thank you, my dear" I said her.

"Can I see them?" I hesitated briefly, wanting to make the right decision. "O.K.," I said, and lifted up my satin sleep-top. Beth was awed. She had seen the developing girls her age in the showers at the pool, and she had seen naked breasts on television before, but—she told me later-- mine were the most beautiful, perfect pair she had ever seen. I watched as Beth studied my breasts for almost a minute. Then, without permission but not thinking it was wrong, Beth put her hands on my breasts and began to rub them, caress them and feel their weight. I lifted my head up immediately and said "Oh, Bethy I don't know...if " But Beth kept up the massage and even rubbed my nipples between her index finger and thumb, causing me to mumble, "oh, my god" and

lay my head back down. Beth was fascinated with this new feeling. My breasts were cool, soft and heavy nippled. My skin was very smooth and Beth ran her fingers, palms and the backs of her hands all over them. She alternated holding each breast with both hands and she pushed my breasts up from underneath, and studied how hard she could squeeze them and how much they wobbled when she let go. Then she focused her attention and fingers back on the nipples – and I emitted an audible "unh."

"This is where baby's get milk from, right Mom?" asked Beth.

"Uh, yes honey it is but you shouldn't..."

I found myself cut off as Beth lowered her mouth onto my nipple and sucked it in. Beth used her right hand to tilt the breast in the direction of her mouth and her left to continue massaging the other breast. After about a minute, she switched breasts. When she was finished, she sat up and said,

"Did you like that, Mom?"

I had in fact enjoyed that encounter, but was equally mixed with shock, embarrassment and fear. I enjoyed the closeness with my daughter and it had felt good, very good, but I feared there was more to it than that.

"I... did like it honey, but it's not something we're supposed to do, you know, I think that..."

I didn't know what to say after that -and as I was searching for the words Beth said,

"I know mom. It was the last time, remember?" I was, relieved that it was over, and said,

"You're right." Let's go to sleep."

"Um, mom?"

"Yes Beth?"

"Do you think you could do that to me? Just one time? So I know what it's like?"

Now my head was spinning. I knew the right answer was to say no and stop this whole thing now, but it was as if I had given free license to do this by framing the whole "new boyfriend, end of game" thing in her mind. I couldn't believe I was saying this:

"O.K. baby but we're going to sleep after it's done."

Beth slid back down onto her back and I leaned over and lifted up my daughter's nightshirt. I propped myself up with my left arm and placed the right hand where Beth's left breast would eventually grow, moving it in massaging circles, and I lowered my mouth to my daughter's nipple, thinking "I can't believe I'm doing this, this is so wrong."

Beth was expecting me to just suck on her tiny nipple the way she had just done to me, like a baby does. But to her great and unexpected pleasure, her mother's full lips parted and my large, sandpapery tongue emerged, flicking and licking Beth's nipple. It felt wonderful to me -- tingly! Then I sucked the nipple in and rolled it between my tongue and the roof of my mouth. In sheer enjoyment, Beth began to rapidly sigh. I knew she had not expected this! I moved my mouth over to the other nipple and performed similar oral ministrations on it. I then made long tongue strokes over each nipple (all the while Beth watching excitedly as saliva from her mom's mouth dripped onto her chest and I washed it into Beth's nipples). Beth loved the way my tongue felt so coarse that it tickled the ends of her nipples. I finished by rapidly flicking between alternating nipples, and giving each one a long, firm suck. Then, kissing my daughter on the head, I asked her "Good enough?"

"Wow" was all Beth could say, still breathing heavily.

"Glad you liked it, sweetie. Now let's go to sleep for real."

Which we both did, but not before each of us realized that this had somehow turned from something clinical and innocent into something more erotic and depraved that had us both got rather aroused.…. The next morning neither said anything about what happened the night before. While I was making breakfast and Beth was in the shower we both reflected on the incident. From my daughter perspective, last night was special but something at that moment she didn't want to do again. Beth had thought I had a beautiful body and was very curious about it. Over the years she had grown comfortable touching me but now she knew that touching like that wasn't appropriate. She had wanted her mother to suck her nipples just to see how it felt, but what I had done instead, made her feel funny , very funny inside her, and better, much better than holding Brian Daley's hand. She was hoping this wouldn't make things weird with her mom, and vowed that she would never play "the game" or do anything like that again. I felt no remorse whatsoever since I too was certain that last night would be the one and only time that something like would ever happen. In a way it made me feel good that my daughter admired my breasts and gave me so much attention.

At 30 I still had friends who were single and in very good shape. And I felt like I wasn't fun anymore, that I wasn't attractive and that I was getting heavier every month. With Mack we had a fairly good sex life still, but he didn't pay the same attention to me that he used to; I blamed this on my increasing of weight. I also anticipated feeling horrible about what I did in return to Beth last night, but those feelings never came. If anything I felt rather sly about it since I knew my daughter enjoyed it and it didn't mean anything. Neither of us, mother nor daughter ever spoke about the incident, but it wasn't necessary. It never had an adverse effect on our relationship, and apparently Beth's interests turned to boys from that point on. We remained so very close; there was never a taboo subject for discussion. Beth always took time to hang out with me, whether it was shopping or concerts in the park or going to the movies. And I watched my daughter grow into a beautiful, confident young woman. True to her mother's word, Beth's breasts blossomed to a lovely 32C. So Beth graduated from high school and enrolled in the University of North California, all without ever playing "the game" with me again. During finals week of her first year at UNC I give her a call from home to talk about her plans for the summer. Beth said that she was planning living at home (if that was all right with us) and trying to get a summer job in the area as a lifeguard or in the library .

3

Susan: some twenty one years ago

Beth was not your average girl. She somehow seemed to have inherited that subtle hippy mindset underneath her bubbly exterior. ¡Save the Whales¡ ,and ¡Save the ozone¡. MOM!! Don't you know that's animal flesh? Two months later she was eating cheeseburgers again. We tried not to smother her radical ideas as they came and went and as we hoped she -- like us -- would just sort of smooth into the texture of responsibility. And so when she stopped wearing gaudy make up and started looking cute again.…..starting getting grades for the first time since grade 6 we were relieved. She graduated top of her high school class and was accepted to UCLA with a partial scholarship. Paying her tuition and room & board was going to be a little tight with a growing boy in the house….but we knew it was worthwhile. Every time she visited from university she seemed different. In all her life she'd never had short hair but she finally got it cut short and curly and her dark hair set off the blue contacts she wore.

"I just wear them sometimes…..don't you wish sometimes you had blue eyes?" she asked all dimples.

Sigh..….yes I suppose there were many times I had. "But your hair! It's as short as a…..."

"Boy’s?... Mom... that's the way I like it."

"What do your friends think?",

"Oh... I don't care too much what they think... I know my best friend likes it. She says it makes me very attractive."

"Attractive? Attractive To whom?... ….I'm sorry Beth... …I didn’t' mean anything by that remark..."

She had certainly grown into an attractive young woman.….not any taller than five foot eight but she'd inherited my figure and took great care of it. She was very nicely filled out now.

At the end of her second year before exams she came home homesick and studied in her old room. It was sort of nice to have her home but in all honesty the more she was around the more I noticed how she was her own person and I couldn't mother her any longer. It struck me shortly after that while she would always be my daughter she was now a woman and I start wondering what her sex life was like. Did she have a boyfriend? She didn't talk about it; if she did. Was she "doing it?" OH GOD! I hoped she wasn't....I hoped she was staying a virgin forever. So when she next came home from school I found myself unable to keep from asking.

"Are you dating anyone," I inquired as we peeled potatoes at the kitchen sink. She smiled and looked around for her father. "Maybe."

"Maybe?" I asked. "Are you going to make me pry?"

"But you do it so well," she giggled.

"I mean...I've been thinking....worried actually...are you...sexually active...?"

She smiled chopping the potato into pieces and taking the one from my hand.

"Well...depends...."

"On what?" I asked confused. "You either are or aren't."

Beth looked around again for her father. "Well...I mean I've had my boyfriends...nothing serious...but..."

"But? But? ....now you are driving me crazy."

"But I do it so well," she giggled.

I kept peeling thinking I would just wait until she made my worst thoughts come to life. "Well...I am seeing someone..." she said mysteriously.….but not in the way you might think.….its a different kind of person..."

"Oh God.….he's not married is he?" I gasped.

She giggled. "Cold mom…..very cold."

"Older? A teacher?" my eyes widened.

"Still cold," she smiled.

"Is he black.….you know.…. I mean we don't care about that…..it's nothing to be ashamed of."

"ICY," she leaned back against the countertop. God, she was pretty. Her breasts jutted out nicely in her T-Shirt.

I give up…...Uncle! …...who is he?"

She looked once more for Mark. "Well Mom…..he.....is a she."

I dropped the potato and it thudded on the aluminium sink. "A girl?" I whispered. God. the idea almost seemed silly…..Beth with…...some…...girl?…..."You're gay?" I gasped putting my hand to my mouth.

She shook her head "No…..no…..I'm not gay…..calm down please. Shit, Mom…..there was no way to tell you….. and I didn't plan to.….but you asked about my sex life.…. sorry."

I sat down at the table. "How can you not be gay…..and be….."

"It's not like that," she smiled as she took a chair. "We're not like in love or anything. I consider myself quite heterosexual…..I just…..I don’t know…..wanted to…..experiment.….you know. I mean, it just happened. And I liked it….. well I still like it.…. I mean….. it's just really something you wouldn't understand unless you ever did it. Mom? Haven't you…..I mean, didn't you…...back in the seventies….. all that free love…."

I shook my head. "Well," I looked around. "I suppose it had come up…..but we weren't really hippies…..and things were dying out by then.….I mean..."

"Well…..its just a thing…..you know…..she's really pretty….. God is she pretty.…. and we get along. We just want to try stuff out…..GOD!" she blushed. "This is more embarrassing than I thought it would be.

"I mean…..." I stammered. "have you two…..you know... “

She just looked at me.

"GOD!" I smiled and blushed. "You have!!!" I was full of panic and nervousness and wished I'd never brought up the subject. I whispered to her. "GOD! Don't tell your dad.....he'll just keel over I promise you!"

My mind started thinking about…..imagining it…..GOD! It was terribly arousing. And frightening at the same time. And I was a little jealous. NOT MY Beth!!! Having sex with another girl!!!

"What does she looks like?" I asked, breathing quite heavily.

Beth pulled a small coin pouch from her jeans and pulled a photo from it. "Uhm..,,,. her name's Nikki...she's first year too.…. Mom, it's not like we love one another that way or anything...",

The picture shook in my fingers and I was still giggling and shaking my head. The girl was wearing a very tiny bikini. She was adorable. She even looked a bit like she could be Beth’s sister, if she had one.

"I probably shouldn't say this….. but….. she's pretty. I mean, for a girl that is." God, I was nervous about this. What was stranger is that I found myself looking at this young girl's breasts. Beth was right! What a figure. Had Beth touched her there? My eyes went down to her bikini.…. No! I couldn't think that. My baby didn't!

"I'm glad you like her too..…. I mean, I'm glad you think she's pretty too. She’s beautiful, actually. Mom.…. I'm glad you're taking this so well," Beth said.

I giggled.

"What's so funny?"

"Oh...you know.…..just being old like me…..and well…..you know we never thought about gay... ..not-gay.… and here you are.….God! Beth do you really do it with her? I realized what I said. "I'm sorry, it's just that it's so….. so…..".

"Fascinating?" Beth answered, smiling at me.

"Well," I paused. "yeah…..I guess it is. You know when we were young.…..that was so.….unspeakable…..but you know…..I had my thoughts…..I wasn't a total square…..but there's a big jump from that to this!" I laughed. I couldn't help it. "God....now I can't stop thinking about it….." I giggled. "Look what you've done to me!"

"Sorry…..I didn't mean to spoil your imagination."

"Well…..let's just try to keep this under our hats and you let me know how things come along…..I mean…. sorry…I meant….." I giggled.

"I know what you mean Mom," Beth smiled to me.

And she opened her arms to hug me. The hug just wasn't the same now. Not with these images in my head. I hugged her and felt something sexual in the core of my body…..I felt her breasts against me…..her body against mine…… "Let's finish the potatoes," I said, quickly moving away and back to the counter.

Beth came home for the summer and brought home what I most feared , no, not a "girlfriend"…..but her…… sexuality. I had spent the four weeks leading up to her return trying desperately to get the image of her and Nikki out of my mind..…and not having much success. Picturing that beautiful girl in the bikini... .with my Beth. Part of me was disgusted…..part of me was fascinated...another part frightened... another part... aroused, and another part very, very jealous. So when she took into her old room and got a job at the library nearby I dreaded the whole thought of being around and alone with her while all I could think about her was….that. But my curiosity got the better of me. I wanted to ask so many questions..… filthy questions. I could hardly bring myself to ask them aloud to myself, let alone to my daughter. As fate would have it.…she seemed to sense this after a few weeks, and the first chance we got that Mark and her brother were gone to a ballgame, she brought it up. I had been finishing off the linens when she sat on the bed in our bedroom (her father and mine) and boldly said, "You seem more…..I don’t know.. …more distant around me….is it because of the thing with Nikki?"

"Well, honey….." I started.

"Don't worry... ..That's over Mom....I mean we're friends, Nikki and I, but.....I mean…..we aren't doing anything right now."

I was relieved to hear it…..and strangely…..a bit startled.…. and then, a bit disappointed.

"Well...honestly...I didn't have a real problem with it. Actually if I had a problem, it was my own imagination... it was that I just couldn't stop thinking about it. I mean you're my daughter but it just…..you know….. even so I couldn't stop wondering….." I blushed.

"Really?" she smiled. "That's sorts weird but its cool that you can admit it…..I mean that's how I started thinking about it…... when I found out one of my friends was fooling around with a girl."

"Which one?" I asked.

Remember Helen at the recreation centre? It turned out that back in high school she started experimenting."

"Valerie's girl…..GOD! Do her parents know?"

"I don't really know her that well anymore.....I haven't talked to her since she told me....it sort of spooked me..."

"But it did the same thing to you that your story did to me?"

"Yeah...it got me thinking…..wondering…..you know…..and well…..Nikki and I got to be good friends and we both were thinking about it a lot….. and we asked if either of us had experimented….. and….. well... one night I was extremely horny... things just sort of happened from there."

"Well…..I didn't mean to seem distant…..I'm embarrassed…..I mean….getting aroused by thinking about my own daughter...and then on top of it….wondering…..you know…..what's it like....I wanted to ask…. but it all just seems so....secret...you know..."

"Well…..if you want to know, Mom…..it really feels great…..I mean in a very sexual sort of way…. psychologically too I guess.. .and as for thinking about me.. . well, its not like its incest or something."

"What a word!' I gasped. "It's just that I thought about it once….only once mind you.….if I wanted to try it….I don't know anyone…..isn't that silly? What a thought…..I mean I don't know any lesbians or whatever. Maybe when I was young I could have found someone but now…..I mean…..you're the only one I know who…..you know…...has ever tried it."

Beth shrugged her shoulders. "Yeah I guess its not so easy…..I mean things just sort of fell into our lap with Nikki and I. ..it is kind weird.. .I could see why you would have thought that.. ..you know...who else do I know...Beth's the only one...."

I had just lost my mind and was laughing at nothing in particular....

Mark called out from downstairs. Thank God for that! Saved by the bell…..what else were we going to say? We'd reached a terribly embarrassing impasse.

The next morning after Mark had gone to work and my son Aaron was in the den watching television, Beth found me in the study.

"Hi,"

Hi...just finishing up the bills for the month. Not working today?"

"Nah...switched with Natalie she wants to go to a concert tonight at the recreation centre. Mom, I ...uh...wanted to talk to you..."

Oh?" I asked with voice and eyes gleaming.

"About what you said...about you know... that you were curious... thinking you didn't know anyone...you know..."

I wasn't sure where she was going, so my expression asked for me.

"Well...I mean…..it is weird…..but....not that it had to be like….you know.…everything....but if you just wanted to ….well.…test the feeling of....`hands' or something.…GOD! I shouldn't even be asking you this...." she blushed.

The office was filled with anticipation and embarrassment. "Are you.. .uh. .." I wasn't laughing now.. .. "Are you asking me.. . Beth! GOD! You're propositioning me. I mean I'm excited.…. and curious…..but it just sounds…..too..."

"Kinky?" she giggled. 'I know….me too….but... well.... Mom, it's been awhile since I've been with Nikki and I've been kind of horny lately and….. I guess when I thought of it…..I figured well….. I could use some sort of.…. stimulation myself.….."
"You really must have really liked it," I said….. asked?

"Mom, it's like an addiction."

"I don't know. I mean, your and I are older now…. and we sort of got over it….and don’t have sex….."

"No, Mom…. I swear.…. it's intense….. much more intense than with a guy. I miss it….."

"You are horny, aren't you sweetheart!" I broke into hysterical laughter and Beth followed suit.

"Sorry.…I know its too weird….I just know how I felt when I was wondering about it, and well.…. I shouldn't have asked"

You feel sorry for me," I smiled.

"No….well…..yeah…..no…..its just that you know.….you're not in college anymore with kids experimenting.… where you could find someone that.….. well ….. would be willing to try things with you….

"You mean if you were in school right now, you'd go looking for it?" I giggled

"Well, yeah. I hate to say this, but I probably would. Mom.…. I really am horny. It must be that time of month or something."

"Well, you could find some guy.…."

"No Mom.… that won't do it. It has to be a girl.… I get so excited just thinking about it. But you know…. I'm not there, where I can find somebody of my own sex…. I can't do it here.… the town's too small. And where would I find anybody my…. well…."

Age?" I asked.

Well.… yeah…."

"Beth.… .Am I too old for you?"

"No….not actually….you look great....I mean I think even the girls who I know who ARE lesbians would say you're sexy. Its just that….. you are..."

"Boring?"

Beth smiled. "Well….not boring…..just you live in a very protective environment…..where things like that don't happen or if they do…...they are kept secret very well."

"Well," I smiled nervously…...."I appreciate the offer but maybe that's just a bit too weird even for us “old” hippies…."

"Well…..think about it…... If you ever want to….. I just mean…..you know..."

"A little stimulation…..isn't that what you said?". I giggled.

"Well…..I'm going to meet dad for lunch in a couple of hours so."

"Make sure he doesn't eat meat…...he's on a diet," I instructed her.

Beth's "idea" was right of left field. But to my shame…..it was a very tempting offer. I had this bizarre mixture of scorn and lust involved with the thought. She and I even…..you know.….simulating touching...Feeeewww! Eeewww to the incestuous concept. And a bigger Eeeeeeewwww to how much a part of me found the idea twice as depravedly attractive as just "experimenting with another woman". GREAT! Now I had two things running through my head.…..arousing me and terrifying me. Beth having sex with another woman. Beth having sex with another woman…....who just happened to be me. Only in my revolting flashes of sexual perversity it wasn't just “simulated touching". I went up and masturbated to two orgasms within an hour, and took a nap.

So for the next week.…..I had a new psycho-sexual battle to wager. Emotionally when I thought of it…..incest was enough to make me vomit. I had given birth, bathed and brought up this beautiful girl…....she was my daughter.…..but without those emotional facets…..the idea…..from a purely carnal standpoint…..she was gorgeous.…. she was built... ..it was deliciously sick.

To my chagrin I found the carnal side winning and found that when I was around her…...I was staring at her. She was turning me on..… I couldn’t. believe it….. getting aroused looking at another woman.…. my own daughter.… I wanted to say, "okay....let's…." Thank God I was far too cowardly!

The following week, I started thinking about it, about Beth and me doing it, when Mark and I made love…..not the whole time, mind you.…..just during certain aspects of our lovemaking…..here and there.…..ashamed of it afterwards, but very aroused and without a soul to confess to.

The morning my son Aaron went off to day camp for the month of August, Beth brought the subject up again. I was fixing the cushions on the couch and she had come down from reading (her morning ritual).

"So..….about what we talked about….." she said nervously. I couldn't tell if she was terrified I'd say yes or terrified I'd say no. What a horrible thought!

"Well," I smiled. "Would you think horribly of me if I said I had thought about it?" I asked.

"No…..not at all.….I uh…..when I asked…..I didn't think…..well…..since then….."

"I don't know how I feel," I decided to save her the embarrassment. "Truth is…..I am curious…..and I never thought about what you suggested as anything more than ridiculous…. but….being totally honest…..there's a dirty part of me that uh...."

"Me too," she confessed.

"Are you still as horny as last week?"

She nodded.

"God, Betty... so am I. Shit..."

The two of us stood there digesting this uncomfortable mutual admission.

Silence.

"Maybe..." I started to say ,thinking best I stop my mouth from even saying maybe...

"Maybe what..."

"Maybe we can.….start slow.....uh.….GOD!" I blushed.

"Don’t be embarrassed," Beth said. "I'm fine with that…..."

"I…..uh….." trying to be mature and in control. "I'll need you to sort of…..you know..."

"No problem…..I mean…..I'm the one who's done it. I understand" . Uncomfortable silence again.

"So…..." I asked, not sure what or when this was supposed to happen.

"So..." she smiled. "Why don't you sit here…..on the back of the couch?" she asked.

She meant now? …..oh GOD!! Was I ready for this.….ready to break at least two taboos?

My fear was flavoured with the sexual tension and anticipation of the last few months....since she had first confessed her "experimentation" to me.

I hesitantly rounded the couch and sat up on the back of it, my dusty jeans and tight white t-shirt suddenly feeling conspicuous.…..were they sexy…..were they a turn off?

Beth stood in front of me, in a deliciously tight pair of Levis cut offs, and a T-Shirt with no bra. Her nipples were showing. Did I turn her on?

"Well...close your eyes…..that'll make it easier for both of us I think."

GOOD IDEA. As soon as I closed my eyes half of my discomfort was gone…..but then it opened up a new sense of…..sexuality. I felt her hand on my shoulder. "Tell me when you get freaked out….."

"You too," I said nervously.

Her finger extended from her hand, and went round my neck, giving me shivers... ..she leaned in and gave me a kiss on the neck.…. Oh, God!

Her finger strolled down slowly, very slowly to my chest…..over my right breast to the nipple.

MY GOD!....I tried not to react…..but I couldn't help it.….it was incredibly sexual…..and I was so unbelievably aroused. "Mmmmmm," I moaned slightly…..softly This must have been an encouragement because her palm suddenly opened over my whole right breast and I gasped…..feeling the warmth of her hand through my T-shirt. She massaged my flesh. "GOD Beth this is really turning me on….." I confessed nervously.
"Me too," she said in an airy voice.

I wanted to say....let's stop....I thought she might say it...but she didn't.

Her other hand was now cupping my left breast and together her hands started circling my heaving breasts as my breathing got deeper and more excited. The experience of being touched by another woman blended with the fact that my daughter was the woman…..was......overwhelming.…. beyond reality ! Her hands left my breasts and travelled over my torso and sides pulling my shirt from my jeans around the waist.

"Is this too far?" Beth asked in a whisper, nibbling my ear.

Of course it was too far…..too far way back at…..can you sit here….. Her hands, without hesitation, pulled my shirt up over my breasts. Her hands reached around my back. I could feel her breasts against mine as her fingers unfastened my bra clasp. This was suddenly moving much faster! MY breasts felt the release from confines. The bra dropped to the floor and Beth’s hand cupped my right breast. Her warm mouth covered the nipple and my eyes opened as I cooed.

"GOD! Betty.….I'm.….God.…I feel like I'm about to…." I was trembling. My pussy must have been soaked.

She stopped and massaged my breast with her hands rubbing the nipples skilfully between her fingers.

"Me too. Take it easy... there's more," she panted. Then she was right back..….mouthing my right breast as she explored the other with her hand, then switching as I watched her.….panting.…

"Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....Beth can I say I'm enjoying this….."

"Your not the only one," she muttered momentarily and then went to my right breast again, my hand on her head, my free one taking the place of her hand to cup my breast for her to suck. Her legs moved next to mine... around mine. Her thigh moved between my legs. Her cut offs were pressed against my thigh. As she held me, mouthing my nipple until I thought I would faint, I felt my baby gently moving her hips against me, Beth was….. dry-fucking me.

"Betty... I like it... I mean... Oh, sweet God, Oh my darling, I love it... ..but you.…. I mean, how can you be enjoying this….. I'm not doing anything for you….." I almost lost it again, and had to take a deep breath. "OH,OH, Oh, Oh, God! That's it. Suck it, sweetheart."

She looked up at me, her tongue on my nipple. "I LIKE TO DO THIS…. OK? It really turns me on... to play with another woman's breasts.

"Not as much as it's doing to me," I giggled.

"Don't bet on it," she teased. The focal point of her womanhood pressed into my thigh ever harder. She clamped her lips on my nipple, while her tongue roved over the tip. "How's that?," she mumbled.

"Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.….yeah…..it feels good…..you do this well.… I mean, REALLY well... I can tell you've done this before" I panted.

“”It was you, You were my first one. You were my teacher. Remember “ the game” ? . Since then I’m smitten with you and your body.”

"Beth. DO I have.…..attractive ones?"

"They're perfect," she replied and returned to my left one. "Oh, God Mom... they're absolutely perfect."

Silence.

"Mom.…. is this as good as with….. Mark?".

She didn’t say “is this as good as with