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Chat Night Guest: Nostrumo On Saturday September 25, 1999 1PM PST Edited by Anne-Mal Nostrumo helps as an editor of TG stories. You can e-Mail Nostrumo at: [email protected] We start as Anne-Mal is late again... (Nostrumo) Hi! (Sir_Lee) Hi, it seems I got here first again. Where's our moderator? (Nostrumo) I don't know, but I think she will arrive soon. (I hope!) (Sir_Lee) By the way, Nostrumo, a thing that I have been curious for a while, is your name meant as a homage to Ridley Scott or Joseph Conrad? (Nostrumo) If make it more clear, I would be more so. :) (Sir_Lee) Well, is it a reference to the movie "Alien" or the book "Nostrumo?" (By the way, I'm told the book is the original reference, Scott was paying homage to it in the movie.) (Nostrumo) Yes, I did chose the name after the movie "Alien". :) (PJ) Hmm, I see the early birds get the good seats. (Sir_Lee) Well, PJ, I had nothing else good to do while downloading stories from FM. So, I spawned another browser window and logged on! (PJ) I'll just count it as being sophisticated enough to be early to a good chat. (Nostrumo) Uh, you expect too much PJ. (PJ) Oh! *Grin* I don't think so! (Nostrumo) That's good. I hate to live up to expectations. (Sir_Lee) Since we were talking about names PJ, are those your real initials, or do you write in your pajamas? ;-) (PJ) *Chuckle* It's actually an inside joke. Which I ain't sharin'! ):P (Sir_Lee) Well, it's probably like mine! Intended as a pun, but nobody ever got it, so I now won't tell what it was because I'm so ashamed of my lack of sense. (PJ) (I could make a comment about your name too. You always seem so affable and not at all 'Sir Lee') (Mindy) Sir Lee, did you ever leave from last night or have you been here the whole time! (Nostrumo) Wow Mom! *Looks up* (Sir_Lee) Hi Mom! No, I just logged on some ten minutes ago. (Mindy) Hmmm, where is Anne-Mal! (*Anne-Mal) Sorry, I had to reboot to get the Java to work! (Mindy) Ask and you shall receive! And how high of heels do these new boots you have on, have? (*Anne-Mal) Let's start in about 6 minutes! (Nostrumo) Hm, looks as if there is some need for the TCL/Tk client I'm writting! :) (*Anne-Mal) Well, I only have a 100mhz machine! ;( (PJ) Isn't it amazing that something capable of performing 100 million operations a second is considered "slow"? (Nostrumo) Well, don't be bothered I only live on a P133 or APX21066/300! (Sir_Lee) Nostrumo, you lost me completely. I have no idea what's a TCL/Tk client? (Nostrumo) *Wide grin* It's a kind of scripting language which is much easier on complex tasks like Graphics or Network and compatible to all machines where TCL/Tk is available. (Sir_Lee) In my experience, nowadays CPU power is pretty much unused on any Pentium-class machine. The real bottleneck is RAM. (*Anne-Mal) So everyone say hi to Nostrumo! (Nostrumo) Hello? (Jacki) Hi Nostrumo! (jan) Hi Nostrumo!!!! (Mindy) Hi Nostrumo! (amy) Hi Nostrumo! (*Anne-Mal) Welcome honored guest! (Nostrumo) Hi all. Honored? (Sir_Lee) Hi Nostrumo (*Anne-Mal) Well, you aren't dishonored, are you? ;) (Nostrumo) Well, I don't know, at least I'm not disowned! :) BTW, how was the chat with `the Professor this morning? Hm, No questions? Am I that simple and swallow? (amy) Freudian slip! (Mindy) You see this Anne-Mal in the room? Technical problems, Anne-Mal went blind for a second and could not see anything or anybody. (*Anne-Mal) Yepper! I'm back again! (amy) Nostrumo, what do you see as the role of the Nifty archive editors? (Nostrumo) *Patting the seat beside* Well, I don't know if I got the question right, but if you meant what role I see there. In the beginning I did not see a lot of stories, so I had to seek them. That is a lot different now. (Mindy) We have not officially started yet! (*Anne-Mal) So they don't see my hype! No big loss! (Nostrumo) Err, what hype? (*Anne-Mal) That you are the sage of TG fiction! Or is it true? (Nostrumo) The sage of TG fiction? Hardly I would say. I had looked up the word and to be honest I had thought you meant the other meaning of it. (*Anne-Mal) Oh, what was that meaning? (Nostrumo) A kind of herb, a soothing one! :) (PJ) ("Herb"? Nostrumo's first name is Herb? I never would have guessed!) (Nostrumo) *Laughter* Far from it. A hint, both names are Scandinavian. (Emilia) Yeah, that simplifies it! :) (*Anne-Mal) Remember that we are all friends here, no one can offend! (Nostrumo) Who had offended me? (*Anne-Mal) Calling you Herb! ;) (Nostrumo) As long not Hugo or Horst! :) (*Anne-Mal) Do you have an opening statement? (Nostrumo) I see there more people here than I had expected! (I had thought at most me and the moderator would be here!) I only plea for your mercy and patience. I do not have much experience with on-line chats and don't understand all these nifty, small symbols. (They are called characters dummy!) Also be aware that I run this whole stuff via telnet from Europe, which makes it much harder to respond in time to you. And please keep in mind this is not my native tongue, I have a lot more to think of during your questions than you do. So let get us slaughter the lamb! (Sir_Lee) Besides keeping the TG section at Nifty, for which we are grateful, how much have you written yourself? (Nostrumo) *Pondering* Well, I have only written my masters thesis and one or two articles for some scientific journals. In German of course. (Sir_Lee) I seem to recall a couple very short stories in TSA with your byline, am I mistaken? (Nostrumo) I think there had to be a mistake, because I'm sure I have never written a single story. (Mindy) Sir Lee, he posts stories to lists for others, one of the many things he does to advance an author's works. (Nostrumo) Well, Mindy now others do this! :) (PJ) Nifty must have required a great deal of time and effort! (And I echo Lee's comment, I know a lot of folks who are deeply grateful for it!) (Nostrumo) Yes, it took a lot of time and now I'm only doing it on a low profile. Sometimes I had cached 1-3 MB of stories a week and now it's much less. (jan) You're one of the pioneers. I was on your original mail list before Fictionmania. What do you see as the biggest changes since then? (Nostrumo) Well, I think one of the biggest change was the starting of Fictionmania. The advances of Fictionmania are so obvious I do not need to state them here. (jan) Any hopes for the future? (Nostrumo) I have in mind to generate a database of TG-fiction, like a bibliography. Maybe with reference to all the stored places of stories. I also hope to get the time, money and opportunity to get a better on-line access, to build my own server cluster for such things. (*Anne-Mal) I think jan is talking more about the stories generated. (Nostrumo) As for the stories, I think some have gotten very professional in style and content, but at the same time I see that the opposite also happens. I fear that the average is still the same, but the contrasts between them are larger. I hope that we could hold on to the real good people that write our free stories and acquire more new ones which could be build on their experience and wisdom. And I hope that there will be promising authors in the future! (amy) Can you give us some idea of how stories get into the archive and who does what? I should say that I've been doing some of the story posts for the last couple years but you still contribute heavily. Particularly going out and finding stories that wouldn't get in without you. (Nostrumo) The underlying structure of Nifty is as follows, there is a master archive in which all editors put their stuff in the appropriate sub-trees. From there they propagate through the mirrors. From the people who run Nifty it is a bit different. There is a main editor who has the last word. If you a submit a story, he redirects the story to the proper editor or even puts them into place himself. Why the Archive is maintainable at this size and diversity has a lot to do with the ability of building soft links, which is nifty thing for that. (*Anne-Mal) Ah! That is where the name Nifty came from! (Nostrumo) Well, I don't know for sure, but I could also think that it had! A lot the editors at Nifty are IT-professionals and have some heavy *IX training, the site developed from the first place where the archive appeared, a system actually called Nifty at Carnegie Mellon :) (Mindy) First off you are my hero and probably everybody else in this room for what you have done for so many years. A true trail blazer. (Nostrumo) Hero???!!!! Me????!!!! Mindy you are a flatterer. I'm anything but a hero. Mindy, it was quite unspectacular. The main editor just contacted me and asked if I wanted to do it! I said 'Why not?'. (Mindy) Sorry anybody that has been around TG fiction before Fictionmania, will agree with me, you can blush all you want! (Nostrumo) Well I think this color is called Picasso Red! :) (Mindy) So how did you get started with Nifty? What happened to make you decide to do it? (Nostrumo) Well, before I was contacted I had just posted several stories to Usenet and got some praise about it. I shared this with 'The Archivist', a pity he stopped posting. Must be real life problems. *Grabs a cup of tea and sips* Since our moderator has left us again, some Tea? (Mindy) Anne-Mal is having technical problems! (*Anne-Mal) Gee, this is getting bad! (Nostrumo) What kind of problems does she have? (*Anne-Mal) Maybe rather than tempt fate again, I will just open it up for a free-for-all! (Nostrumo) Oh no! I will be swamped! (*Anne-Mal) Sorry for those that whispered, I didn't see them! Remember that Nostrumo is still in the spotlight! (Nostrumo) *Shuffles away from it* (Mindy) Have you or Nifty ever been attacked for content of the site? (Nostrumo) I don't think so, but I'm not the person to ask, as you all might expect. As for Nifty I don't think so, but I do know that the move from Carnegie Mellon towards Gaycafe was caused by Carnegie Mellon, due it's content and the rate it was accessed. (*Anne-Mal) Was it more for content or the rate? (Nostrumo) I think due to the popularity of the site, it attracted a crowd and then the administration. I think our main editor David blocks a lot of the bad stories away from other editors. And he seems to have some knack for it! Thanks David. :) (PJ) This is kind of a loaded question, so I'll accept any answer you want to give. What responsibility do you think the writers owe to, well, everyone. (Nostrumo) PJ the responsibility of writers is a tough one, but there is also a tough responsibility for editors and readers. You could say, 'If I write a book which offend others they have not to read it.', but do have you to write it? Remember that I am talking of fiction and not journalism. (jan) Readers? What responsibility do they really have? (Nostrumo) Readers have the responsibility to read and to read critically! You have to reflect on what you read and try to see some of things which are written between the lines. Your responsibility lies within! By talking with others about what you actually read and not just believing what the critics say! (jan) But why read critically? What if some just want entertainment? That is what fiction is for isn't it? (*Anne-Mal) I think that with the availability of "free" stories, we have yet to determine how to "pay" the authors or web masters! (Nostrumo) You have to reflect on entertainment as well as literature, because if you do not, you are influenced by the author and his/her intentions without your consent. The Nazis did so during their time and today it's a popular way to keep the population on a special track. A Professor at University of Chicago has written a very good article about this subject and the use of it in the US at the `Le monde Diplomantique`, I believe you can find it on the web. (Sir_Lee) Nicollo Machiavelli would be proud! (*Anne-Mal) Since you are fluent if other languages, are their many other non-English TG sites? (Nostrumo) Anne there are some other sites, but these are small and mostly homepages of TS/CD/TG people who share their stories, experiences and stuff. I know of a few German sites and think I have stumbled onto one French site. (*Anne-Mal) No real fiction? (Nostrumo) Sure there is real fiction, but the readers are much less than if you write in English. I have one or two stories by Rhonda Wagham, which are in German. They are very good, but it's strange for me to read them. It may be that it is related to the duality which you Anglican people seem to have, from the Non-English point of view. (*Anne-Mal) Cultural differences? (Nostrumo) Maybe, but I don't know. (Sir_Lee) Do you think it strange the important role two German-speaking persons, you and Thomas Hassan, played in bringing TG/TF on the web? (Nostrumo) I do not believe that is important from where we come from! (Maybe.) I think there was a lot of chance involved, Thomas Hassan and I were at the right place. He has the knowledge to do it and I got the opportunity. (*Anne-Mal) Would you mind stating what country you are from Nostrumo? (Nostrumo) *Grin* I thought it was obvious! Currently I'm located in Stuttgart Germany, but come from Berlin. My hometown. Maybe it was important that Thomas and I, where from Europe and not native English speakers, in the sense of no English traditions holding us back. (*Anne-Mal) Do you think that we English only speakers tend to try and dominate internet sites, like Fictionmania? (Nostrumo) Yes! :) But still in the positive sense. I would love to get more access to Asia, but the content there are hard to understand and if understandable not very interesting. (jan) Of course we do! Americans are KNOWN for their arrogance in not learning other languages! (*Anne-Mal) Hey! Yo habla Espanol, muy poco! (PJ) (Speak for yourself please, Jan. I for one am simply to *Dumb* to learn another language.) :P (Nostrumo) PJ, that is just not right. You are not dumb! (I am dumb.) You just have to learn the language when you are forced, like I am, to go overseas! Let me grab you, drop you in middle Africa or China and we will see how much you learn. :) (jan) LOL! PJ, dumb? As in can't speak? HA! If only 'twere true! (PJ) (I'll be fine, Nost! There are MacDonalds all over the world these days. What more do you need?) (Nostrumo) A guide who could guide you to MC! :) LOL (Sir_Lee) I have one cousin who traveled all over the US knowing just one sentence in English: 'One cheeseburger and one Coke.' Of course, there was a friend traveling with her who spoke fair English. (*Anne-Mal) A little off topic, but is the internet forcing the world to Anglicize! (Nostrumo) Anne, in some sense yes. If you look at the density of how the sites and computers are distributed you would see that they are located in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe and Nippon. In Non-English speaking places they are in large companies, universities and the like. These people speak English in various stages of fluency, but they understand most they are exposed to. (Sir_Lee) That's changing, Nostrumo. In Brazil, just about everyone in the middle-class has a computer and Internet at home, but not necessarily so at the office. (*Anne-Mal) So are we 'forcing', our type of TG stories on the world! (jan) America and American culture (the Internet included) is forcing the world to English! (*Anne-Mal) The problem is jan that Sir Lee is an American, but would not fit most people's definition since he is not from the USA! (jan) True, Anne-Mal, but we (as in America) are American-izing the world. Our television, our movies. etc. have a huge influence. I lived in Asia for 10 years so I've seen it first hand. (Sir_Lee) Anne, I'm a Brazilian, native born and grew and proud of it. (*Anne-Mal) Yes! A native American! (Nostrumo) More descended from Portuguese. :) (Sir_Lee) I'm not a 'native American" in the PC-speak-for-Indians sense, I'm descended from Portuguese. (And a bit of French, Africans, Tupi and whatever.) (*Anne-Mal) That makes you a Native American, you are a Native American as Nostrumo is a Native European! (Nostrumo) Anne, I beg to contradict. (*Anne-Mal) Oh, oh! (Nostrumo) Sir Lee is a mixture of cultures and ethnic origins, but not a native American. (*Anne-Mal) Native American: One who was born in America! (Nostrumo) But I had heard that in Brazil, TG is more common and open than in Europe or the US. (Sir_Lee) Well, yes and no. I have no first-hand experience, but a M2F transsexual even got to be a TV star and do a Playboy cover. Both before and after she got "the operation.' (Nostrumo) That would be a picture I would like to see. (Mindy) Hmm, maybe a get together in Rio for everybody during carnival? (Nostrumo) If I remember right, a lot of TG-people from Brazil come to Europe and end up in Paris in the Bois de Boulogne. (Sir_Lee) That's right, but that's mostly because they do a better living there than in Rio or So Paulo. But, mostly, Brazilians are more open to their sexuality than Americans. For instance, it's quite common for a major TV star to do a Playboy cover, it's kind of 'chic'. (Nostrumo) I do not know what the living circumstances are in Rio or Sao Paulo, but I find it hard to believe that Paris is better as that. They end up as Streetwalkers or worse, under poor living standards. (Sir_Lee) They would be streetwalkers in Brazil too. (jan) Anyway, sadly I need to leave now. Thanks for a wonderful chat, Nostrumo! Bye all! (PJ) Okay, all of which begs the question that I'm going to ask of Nost. Can you "Anglicize" transgenderism? (Nostrumo) Yes, you already have! (jan) Oh drat! PJ WHY do you ask such a great question right when I'm heading out the door! (PJ) (Are we in open chat? Jan and I were having a whispered discussion that bears on a lot of the points raised and I'd like to share.) (Nostrumo) PJ, since Anne's last disappearance we are in open Chat. (PJ) Poor Anne. (*Anne-Mal) I didn't mean to argue with Nostrumo or Sir Lee, just the fact that we who live in the USA tend to try and 'take over' everything! (Mindy) She better not do this tomorrow! :) (PJ) We (Jan and I) were "discussing" whether or not you can "Anglicize" transgenderism. I wonder if this doesn't go back to Nost's point about the "propaganda value" of our writing. (*Anne-Mal) Well, wasn't it Bo Brummel who popularized the wearing of pants? (PJ) (I thought it was Levi Strauss!) (*Anne-Mal) If that is not Anglicizing, I don't know what is! (Sir_Lee) On another chat, someone said that pants were brought to Europe from Turkey or some such. (PJ) Yeah, but think about it for a second. Think about the Japanese. They've had accepted transgenderism for as long as they've had Kabuki. (Nostrumo) PJ about "Anglicizing" transgenderism, I think that the images and prototypes you export into the world are what influence us all. Even so, with it's popularity, Hollywood is not the biggest Movie place in the world. More movies are made in India. (PJ) Okay. Hollywood. Good point! (Sir_Lee) Hollywood does export the American ethics about lots of things, including sexuality. (Nostrumo) If I'm right, in Asia and South America, the beauty ideals are derived from the ideal the people in Hollywood have shown and not because they are forced to use the whole western ideology after W.W.II. It goes for a lot of places in the world. (Sir_Lee) In a sense, yes, we do pay attention to Cindy Crawford and Daryl Hannah, but on the whole, the real sex-symbols in Brazil are local. Brazilians tend to be more ass-fixated than Americans, who tend to be breast-fixated. (PJ) (The point about Japanese T* though of all the T* web-sites I've seen, home pages and the like, seem to follow a very "Western" model) (*Anne-Mal) But is that because they are forced to use Western software and hardware? (PJ) *Shrug* Why would their software dictate their content? Why don't we see any celebration of er... darn, I've forgotten what you call the performer in Kabuki, the one that plays the female roles. (Sir_Lee) Hey, in Shakespeare's time there were no actresses either. Teenage boys played the female parts. (Mindy) Based on your vast experience, will somebody create a TG fiction homemade movie? Do you think in a few years as bandwidth develops this will be possible. (Nostrumo) If bandwidth is no obstacle and tools for movie making pop up, I would say definitely yes. Even now a lot of people play with tools like Blender which allows you to create interactively VR movies and scenes. (*Anne-Mal) On the independent movie front, how about a competition with a cash prize for making a Fictionmania TG movie. Instead of doing ourselves, why not create an independent movie competition for TG movies? (Nostrumo) The question is what is a T*-movie? Deep down every good TG-story is a story in a category which is not particularly TG. Think of the Professor, Brandy, Christopher Leeson, etc. (PJ) (A very good point, Nost. That's one that I don't think has ever been addressed in the interest to get the movie made.) (*Anne-Mal) Very true! What is your definition of TG? (Nostrumo) My definition of TG? That's hard. For me I had never thought in particular of TG of a story. More in the lines what kind of plot we have, Femdom, Fantasy, SF, etc. (Sir_Lee) A "pure" TG story tends to be a wish-fulfillment, played for laughs or tears. (PJ) Yeah, but it's as Nost says Sir Lee, that can be said of any good story. Not just T*. (Sir_Lee) A 'pure' TG would deal almost only with the TG question. If the transformation is the end-all, solving the conflict, it's wish-fulfillment. (Nostrumo) For me TG is if the main hero(ine) switch gender during the story in a believable fashion. (Sir_Lee) Like in John Varley's books maybe, Nostrumo? (Nostrumo) Do not laugh, but I fear I had not anything of him. Oops, my mistake, I just checked my book shelf and I found a book of his, "Steelbeach". (*Anne-Mal) Try reading "Options" by John Varley, you will like it! (Sir_Lee) If it creates conflict, then it usually becomes either a comedy or a drama, exploring the conflict. (*Anne-Mal) Does there have to be a transformation, how about just a change in a mind set? (Nostrumo) For me no. (Sir_Lee) By contrast, for example in the Professor stories, the TG is incidental, the self-growth and the new life to be explored are the real issues. (*Anne-Mal) Exactly, for me TG is characters pushing the gender envelope! (Nostrumo) I would think that an interesting plot would be a diversion of a popular plot in which a boy in our times got involved mentally with the mind of a girl in the Salem days. The time of the witch hunt in New England or the Scarlet Letter. What if the connection goes beyond mind but also on tactile sensations? (PJ) Oh crud. Right in the middle of a really interesting part! I got to run. Thanks for a very thought-provoking chat, Nost/Anne/Mindy! (Nostrumo) Thanks for coming PJ. Bye! My what a merry little group we are :) (Sir_Lee) I'm the last "visitor" here? (*Anne-Mal) Hey, Mindy is a visitor too! (Sir_Lee) No, she's Mom! (Nostrumo) Looks like this one of the shortest chats here! (*Anne-Mal) Nope! Look at Raven's chat! (Mindy) The Tryxi chat was the shortest, about 30 minutes if I remember! (*Anne-Mal) Well, Tryxi was there the shortest, but the chat is actually the second longest! (Mindy) LOL! (*Anne-Mal) (Longest is Mindy's) Editor's Note-Well that was true, Ellen Quick Fingered Hayes is now the longest! (Mindy) Tryxi was late an hour or more to her own chat! (Nostrumo) *Casts a look at the heaving bosom* Who is Tryxi? (Mindy) Anne, you want to explain who Tryxi is? (*Anne-Mal) Tryxi Trash is a character from a Fictionmania story who became so real that she started appearing in chats! (Nostrumo) Err, a real blonde isn't she. (Mindy) Well, Tryxi started out in Bashful's chat didn't she? (*Anne-Mal) Yep! (Nostrumo) I predict that the chat tomorrow will be the longest and best visited! (Sir_Lee) Yes, I suppose so. Hope it doesn't crash the server! Mindy, is there a limit to users in a room? (Mindy) Yes 150, it was 50 until a week ago! I expect over 50! (Sir_Lee) Oh. I guess there's not much risk of overflowing that. Editor's Note- The infamous first Chalker Chat Try! We went well over 50 and crashed the system! (*Anne-Mal) (If Jack doesn't show up, I hope Tryxi shows up to entertain the crowd!) (Nostrumo) Hm, like prancing at the stage with little numbers! :) Wasn't there a fight between Tryxi, Julie and Bashful! (*Anne-Mal) No not a fight, just a tongue in cheek spat. (Sir_Lee) By the way, any thoughts on getting other 'pros' here? What about Varley? Is F.M. Busby available? Editor's Note- We only have to ask! (BTW I am a Busby fan!) (Nostrumo) BTW, Anne why did you asked me to partake in a chat? (*Anne-Mal) As Mindy said, you were a pioneer in Internet TG Fiction! (Sir_Lee) Yes. We had Sapphire, then Thomas, and now you. (Nostrumo) So Mindy was the person who got me here! *Glares at her* (*Anne-Mal) Nope, it was all me! (Nostrumo) *Then smiles* Well, it's still a honor to placed among these others! (*Anne-Mal) I ask people who I think are interesting! (Mindy) I think that having 3 other chats on the same weekend as Chalker, was a problem for many. (*Anne-Mal) I find it interesting that most of the people involved here are computer professionals! (Sir_Lee) Well, we are the nerds who got early on the Net, have the patience to figure out complicated searches on AltaVista and Deja News. (Nostrumo) I'm not a IT-professional. (*Anne-Mal) Science, computer! Same thing! (Nostrumo) Err, who had said I knew something about science? (Mindy) Computers and TG, hmm the radiation from the CRT perhaps? (Sir_Lee) I think that was an assumption based on your Master's degree. Of course your Master's can be in another area. (Nostrumo) *Sigh* It is right my master is a science master, but it's an easy one physics. :) (Sir_Lee) Physics? Isn't that a science anymore? Last time I looked, it was... (*Anne-Mal) Yep, how things work! (Nostrumo) Well, it is a science, but an easy one. The mathematics was a bit to hard for me. (Sir_Lee) You must be the first person I know who says Physics is an 'easy' science... (Nostrumo) Depends on how you see it. If you are one of the people who memorize the stuff in the books it's hard, but if you try to understand it's easy. (*Anne-Mal) Mathematics? Math is easy! (Nostrumo) Well Anne, I found Mathematics quite hard. Affine geometry or group theory is still hard to grasp for me, but I manage. (*Anne-Mal) Mathematics is the only "pure" science, no need to worry about pesky reality! (Nostrumo) Mathematics paints beautiful pictures! Do you know the comic strip where a boy and a girl cuddle in front of a y=exp(-x) graph and she says "Isn't it beautiful! In eternity they touch!" (Mindy) Well gang, I hate to leave, but I have a ton to do! MAER and a bunch of other things. Thanks for coming and having a chat Nostrumo, you are a trail blazer and a hero to many especially me!!! Night! (Nostrumo) *Deep blush and bow* Bye Mom, till tomorrow! BTW, that's one of the reasons why I ended up here in TG-land. I found a study in which the period of woman was analyzed and was compared to TS-people. *Stretchs and pop the kinks* *Stirs the spoon in the tea cup* I think we are the last and should switch the lights off. (*Anne-Mal) Well we are the last now! (Nostrumo) Well I have no special closing remarks, but I apologize to you and the other Americans I might have insulted! (*Anne-Mal) Insulted? How? (Nostrumo) I'm just sometimes too political and do not know where to draw the line. (*Anne-Mal) Like I said, we are all friends here! It is not possible to insult! (Nostrumo) The statements about Americanizing the world and stuff. (*Anne-Mal) You forget, *I* said that! (Nostrumo) But I had directed you in this direction. :) I'm glad that it had gone so smoothly and with so less people. It helped me to keep my nervousness in line. (*Anne-Mal) Oh this was a good one! Wait till they read the log! (Nostrumo) Well I still hate it to put on a pedestal. Err, stage. (*Anne-Mal) Anything that makes you think can't be bad! (Nostrumo) I wonder if someone will read the log! When will it appear on the chat page? (*Anne-Mal) Mindy is behind on posting to the chat page. I have posted most of them to the TG fiction list. Haven't you seen them? (Nostrumo) Yup I know. I had enjoyed the chat-log of Thomas Hassan. (*Anne-Mal) I think that yours will go over just as well! (Nostrumo) We will see. Well let's call us that a night and close the folders? (*Anne-Mal) Have confidence! You forget that I have been to a lot!!! ;) Okay, I am closing the log now!